I for one like the roundabout idea at chase and davis. Although it may take people a while to get used to them, in the long run it will make for an efficient intersection. What do you think?
first encountered them in Carmel a few months ago and while I was confused a bit at first, I like the way the traffic flowed through them and there wasn't the situation like we have now at those corners of Chase, Davis & Perrysburg.
Margo
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Roundabouts makes sense. Especially in this particular location.
I know the residents along Davis Road are not in favor of the roundabout, but they will get used to it, and find that it was a good choice.
And I also have to take into consideration that the residence of the Davis street area had significant input on the new Davis Street bridge, of which is a design nightmare that blocks the view of the river. So, in my opinion their track-record for making bad decisions should be taken into account when determining this issue.
I only hope that Cass County will learn by Kokomo's mistakes and make the roundabout large enough to accommodate school buses, as theirs did not.
And I hope in time the city will make a sister roundabout at the intersection of Davis and High streets. That intersection should never have been designed that way, and is currently a logistical disaster area.
My only question is, "Why did the county deny a roundabout at the intersection of 18th street and Main?"
Truck traffic would only be an issue if the roundabout was designed too small. And I believe the roundabout would be a beautiful gateway into the city.
Nevertheless, I'm not surprised of the negative response the county has received regarding the proposed roundabout. All things new and better have often met this same reaction.
Kado, I am sure you thought it impossible, but - we agree. I think when the locals start to use roundabouts, and realize how much time and effort they save - they will like them. They will then start to pop up all over town. Mall Road and High Street comes to mind.
I lived just past the intersection in question. No doubt about it the way the streets line up (or don't) is really a problem and has been for decades.
My concern for the round about is that people in Indiana simply don't know how to use them. Round-Abouts are not a part of our culture I guess. At least I've never seen a successfully used round about anywhere in these parts. I know there will be an eduction seminar scheduled, but we don't like to go to meetings either. I'm sure the ten or twelve people that will show up for training will be great. Its everyone else I'm concerned about.
About the bridge input - my guess is that you have to blame residents in the additions just north of the bridge for any possible bad input. I never knew of a time when we were included for anything that far south. And certainly never had anything to do with the High Street intersection which I think becomes a little worse with each 'upgrade'.
as I said above, the first time I encountered a roundabout was this summer in Carmel and I had no training on how to use one, I just negotiated it as I went along. and I did fine. I think anyone that has any idea about how to drive will be able to catch on quickly. and of course there will be some who will have unfortunate incidents w/one, but they will learn w/time. it's really not as bad as it seems. and considering this roundabout will not have as many accesses as the 3 roundabouts we encountered in Carmel, it will be WAY less confusing and I do believe most people will get the hang of it really quickly. it will definitely be better than the way the intersections are designed now. hopefully it will be large enough to accomodate school buses.
Margo
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
You're right. The feedback from the bridge came primarily from the Hasty Hills and Indian Heights neighborhoods. Even though public input is very important in changes that effect a neighborhood. The bridge still stands as testament that the input from a few shouldn't supercede good infrastructure design. MHO
You're right. The roundabout is not apart of American culture as it is in Europe. It can be especially daunting to people that live in states that have a two thirds rural population...such as Indiana. We just have to realize that there is a reason that the roundabout has been used for more than two thousand years in Europe....it's because they work.
I loved your comment on the scheduled roundabout informational training. You are soooooo right! A dozen people will show up to get the needed information, while everyone else will be stuck going in circles, with the occasional Dukes of Hazard-esque, high speed car jump through the middle.
I have driven through many of the Carmel roundabouts. If you are not use to them, they can be confusing. Carmel has built close to 40 roundabouts around their city. They receive good praise and bad. They have been the subject of political uprising and misuse of funds. Especially those that are being built on 431. I have a friend that lives in Carmel and he tore his 05 vette up when he failed to negotiate a roundabout during icy conditions. I think roundabouts can be benifical to this community only it they are properly planned.
I was born and raised in Logansport, but I now reside in Carmel. I deal with the roundabouts everyday. Most days I love them, but on the other days.....i curse their existence. They are only worth it at a few intersections, and that is it. The rest were a waste of taxpayers money, because a few people didnt want to wait at a stop sign. I am in Logan pretty much every weekend, and I honestly do not think that a roundaout is needed there or anywhere in town. The money for this project could and should go to other projects. If this did get done, i assure you that after one wreck involving and elderly person or some teenager, the town would be in an uproar and writing on these blogs about how dangerous these things are and yadda yadda yadda. Honestly, when would it help? During the fair? One month out of the year? Is it worth it? will a roundabout change the dynamic of your daily drive that much? They look neat....i will give you that.
but I'm thinking part of the reason that it's being proposed there is because of the dangerous nature of the intersection the way it stands now. I know there have been several close calls for my family going out that way, and not just for the fair. there just seems to be an indecisiveness about when a driver should be turning or not because of the traffic that is coming in 4 different directions. and now that there is more development out there and hopefully more to come, I think they are trying to rectify the situation. jmo
Margo
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
I've thought about this for awhile, and wonder about things like-
How will the farmers be able to use the roundabout? They have farm equipment, trailers full of corn and soybeans to get to the elevator, etc.
Will the mowing machines be able to navigate the roundabout?
This is an agricultural setting with many deer trails-who's going to explain to the deer about a roundabout?
I might understand it in a very congested urban area, but, if it's just crowded when the people on chase Road are coming and going to work, does that justify it?
People showing animals at the fair have to get them to the fairgrounds-will the roundabout accomadate this?
Just wondering who thinks we need this, and why.
That will provide access to the fair grounds off 25. These roads can all be used for moving eqipment and for harvesting. To tell you the truth, I've never really seen farm equipment on that part of Davis Street Road. This roundabout should not hinder fair traffic.
The only field in that vicinity would be the land on the South-West corner of Davis & Chase...and that land has laid fallow. And I expect that this particular plot of land will be developed within a few years.
100N is typically the road that is used as an agricultural connector to farmland on North Davis Road. (of which only two fields are left)
Even though this area is in close proximity to agricultural land. I don't feel it is an agricultural area. It is definitely a mixed use suburban area....and this intersection is the hub.
It would seem that the majority of the traffic is produced by the fact that this road is heavily used as a connector to the east end. And I suspect that as time goes on, this area will continue to develop as a light commercial and residential mixed use district....only increasing the traffic.
Huston park, when developed, will bring a significant increase in vehicular, and pedestrian traffic into the area. Measures need to be taken now to design pedestrian friendly corridors to access this park, and produce streets with proper traffic calming designs.
For the first time ever, I'm seeing the county being proactive in it's planning. Most often we've become managers by crisis, as issues arise from ill concieved planning designs. I believe this roundabout to be a progressive step to abate this area of a dangerous intersection, that incorporates needed traffic calming criteria.
(Diane, LOL!! I'm hoping that someone will teach the deer to look both ways before crossing the street)
I like it too ~
first encountered them in Carmel a few months ago and while I was confused a bit at first, I like the way the traffic flowed through them and there wasn't the situation like we have now at those corners of Chase, Davis & Perrysburg.
Margo
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
~Edmund Burke~
Check out my Blog!!
http://osmom93.blogspot.com/
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agreed
Roundabouts makes sense. Especially in this particular location.
I know the residents along Davis Road are not in favor of the roundabout, but they will get used to it, and find that it was a good choice.
And I also have to take into consideration that the residence of the Davis street area had significant input on the new Davis Street bridge, of which is a design nightmare that blocks the view of the river. So, in my opinion their track-record for making bad decisions should be taken into account when determining this issue.
I only hope that Cass County will learn by Kokomo's mistakes and make the roundabout large enough to accommodate school buses, as theirs did not.
And I hope in time the city will make a sister roundabout at the intersection of Davis and High streets. That intersection should never have been designed that way, and is currently a logistical disaster area.
My only question is, "Why did the county deny a roundabout at the intersection of 18th street and Main?"
Truck traffic would only be an issue if the roundabout was designed too small. And I believe the roundabout would be a beautiful gateway into the city.
Nevertheless, I'm not surprised of the negative response the county has received regarding the proposed roundabout. All things new and better have often met this same reaction.
Kado Downs
http://logansport.myminicity.com/
http://twitter.com/kadodowns
We agree!
Kado, I am sure you thought it impossible, but - we agree. I think when the locals start to use roundabouts, and realize how much time and effort they save - they will like them. They will then start to pop up all over town. Mall Road and High Street comes to mind.
the possibility of the impossible.
Allen, Thanks. That gave me a little chuckle, of which I needed today.
I have a feeling as time goes on, we'll more than likely agree more than we disagree.
Kado Downs
http://logansport.myminicity.com/
http://twitter.com/kadodowns
The Round-About
I lived just past the intersection in question. No doubt about it the way the streets line up (or don't) is really a problem and has been for decades.
My concern for the round about is that people in Indiana simply don't know how to use them. Round-Abouts are not a part of our culture I guess. At least I've never seen a successfully used round about anywhere in these parts. I know there will be an eduction seminar scheduled, but we don't like to go to meetings either. I'm sure the ten or twelve people that will show up for training will be great. Its everyone else I'm concerned about.
About the bridge input - my guess is that you have to blame residents in the additions just north of the bridge for any possible bad input. I never knew of a time when we were included for anything that far south. And certainly never had anything to do with the High Street intersection which I think becomes a little worse with each 'upgrade'.
Jonathan ~
as I said above, the first time I encountered a roundabout was this summer in Carmel and I had no training on how to use one, I just negotiated it as I went along. and I did fine. I think anyone that has any idea about how to drive will be able to catch on quickly. and of course there will be some who will have unfortunate incidents w/one, but they will learn w/time. it's really not as bad as it seems. and considering this roundabout will not have as many accesses as the 3 roundabouts we encountered in Carmel, it will be WAY less confusing and I do believe most people will get the hang of it really quickly. it will definitely be better than the way the intersections are designed now. hopefully it will be large enough to accomodate school buses.
Margo
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
~Edmund Burke~
Check out my Blog!!
http://osmom93.blogspot.com/
Find me on Facebook!!
Jonathan
You're right. The feedback from the bridge came primarily from the Hasty Hills and Indian Heights neighborhoods. Even though public input is very important in changes that effect a neighborhood. The bridge still stands as testament that the input from a few shouldn't supercede good infrastructure design. MHO
You're right. The roundabout is not apart of American culture as it is in Europe. It can be especially daunting to people that live in states that have a two thirds rural population...such as Indiana. We just have to realize that there is a reason that the roundabout has been used for more than two thousand years in Europe....it's because they work.
I loved your comment on the scheduled roundabout informational training. You are soooooo right! A dozen people will show up to get the needed information, while everyone else will be stuck going in circles, with the occasional Dukes of Hazard-esque, high speed car jump through the middle.
Kado Downs
http://logansport.myminicity.com/
http://twitter.com/kadodowns
Carmel Round Abouts
I have driven through many of the Carmel roundabouts. If you are not use to them, they can be confusing. Carmel has built close to 40 roundabouts around their city. They receive good praise and bad. They have been the subject of political uprising and misuse of funds. Especially those that are being built on 431. I have a friend that lives in Carmel and he tore his 05 vette up when he failed to negotiate a roundabout during icy conditions. I think roundabouts can be benifical to this community only it they are properly planned.
James Delp
james_delp901@comcast.net
www.myspace.com/rich1121
is a roundabout really needed?
I was born and raised in Logansport, but I now reside in Carmel. I deal with the roundabouts everyday. Most days I love them, but on the other days.....i curse their existence. They are only worth it at a few intersections, and that is it. The rest were a waste of taxpayers money, because a few people didnt want to wait at a stop sign. I am in Logan pretty much every weekend, and I honestly do not think that a roundaout is needed there or anywhere in town. The money for this project could and should go to other projects. If this did get done, i assure you that after one wreck involving and elderly person or some teenager, the town would be in an uproar and writing on these blogs about how dangerous these things are and yadda yadda yadda. Honestly, when would it help? During the fair? One month out of the year? Is it worth it? will a roundabout change the dynamic of your daily drive that much? They look neat....i will give you that.
I don't know about this for certain ~
but I'm thinking part of the reason that it's being proposed there is because of the dangerous nature of the intersection the way it stands now. I know there have been several close calls for my family going out that way, and not just for the fair. there just seems to be an indecisiveness about when a driver should be turning or not because of the traffic that is coming in 4 different directions. and now that there is more development out there and hopefully more to come, I think they are trying to rectify the situation. jmo
Margo
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
~Edmund Burke~
Check out my Blog!!
http://osmom93.blogspot.com/
Find me on Facebook!!
roundabout
I've thought about this for awhile, and wonder about things like-
How will the farmers be able to use the roundabout? They have farm equipment, trailers full of corn and soybeans to get to the elevator, etc.
Will the mowing machines be able to navigate the roundabout?
This is an agricultural setting with many deer trails-who's going to explain to the deer about a roundabout?
I might understand it in a very congested urban area, but, if it's just crowded when the people on chase Road are coming and going to work, does that justify it?
People showing animals at the fair have to get them to the fairgrounds-will the roundabout accomadate this?
Just wondering who thinks we need this, and why.
There are other roads
That will provide access to the fair grounds off 25. These roads can all be used for moving eqipment and for harvesting. To tell you the truth, I've never really seen farm equipment on that part of Davis Street Road. This roundabout should not hinder fair traffic.
James Delp
james_delp901@comcast.net
www.myspace.com/rich1121
I agree Jim
The only field in that vicinity would be the land on the South-West corner of Davis & Chase...and that land has laid fallow. And I expect that this particular plot of land will be developed within a few years.
100N is typically the road that is used as an agricultural connector to farmland on North Davis Road. (of which only two fields are left)
Even though this area is in close proximity to agricultural land. I don't feel it is an agricultural area. It is definitely a mixed use suburban area....and this intersection is the hub.
It would seem that the majority of the traffic is produced by the fact that this road is heavily used as a connector to the east end. And I suspect that as time goes on, this area will continue to develop as a light commercial and residential mixed use district....only increasing the traffic.
Huston park, when developed, will bring a significant increase in vehicular, and pedestrian traffic into the area. Measures need to be taken now to design pedestrian friendly corridors to access this park, and produce streets with proper traffic calming designs.
For the first time ever, I'm seeing the county being proactive in it's planning. Most often we've become managers by crisis, as issues arise from ill concieved planning designs. I believe this roundabout to be a progressive step to abate this area of a dangerous intersection, that incorporates needed traffic calming criteria.
(Diane, LOL!! I'm hoping that someone will teach the deer to look both ways before crossing the street)
Kado Downs
http://logansport.myminicity.com/
http://twitter.com/kadodowns